FAIR WARNING: If you love this show so much that you’re not going to like someone mentioning aspects of it they don’t like — DO NOT READ THIS. And some of those aspects are extremely beloved characters. I’m serious. Avert your eyes now.
NOTE: Just skip ahead for the images. But this is a long stream of consciousness about my thoughts on the series thus far, if that’s interesting to you.
That’s right, we’ve been (re)watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer for two months now. For me, if Buffy Rewatch is a play, we’re in Act V. But first, I’d like to open by thanking everyone that has actually continued to read these posts. I don’t make it easy — the schedule is all over the place, they have no real roadmap, and they’re filled with run-on sentences (and this is going to be a really long post without many jokes coming up) — but I’m thankful that you care enough to read and contribute (and not bitch me out when I just don’t agree). I don’t say that enough, and I hate that I don’t.
But here’s the truth. And don’t freak out.
I love you.
There, I said it. I know, I know. It’s REALLY early in our relationship but I’m putting it all out on the line here. I love you. I want to marry you, I want to move into a little perfect house with a white picket fence in some suburb and have a dog and two point five kids with you because you’re the one. Don’t run away from me! I’m sorry I freaked you out. We can still work on this!
So I’ve been watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer for two months now. I’ve watched more than two seasons. That’s more than 35 episodes. By now, you’d think someone would have a very coherent, pinpoint-able idea of what his feelings towards a series is. Any normal person would. I’m generally able to tell if I’ll like a series when I watch the pilot. I know a lot of people say you should give it a few more episodes, but the pilot litmus test usually always works for me. When I watched the pilot of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I don’t really know what I thought.
It’s difficult to watch a series from 1997 in 2012 for so many reasons: what was topical in 1997? what was television like in 1997? what was technology like in 1997? We take all of these things for granted now in 2012. If I’m not making any sense, think of it this way: Did you ever watch Psycho and think “That’s what everyone’s raves about?”? Hell, I watched The Dark Knight after everyone talked it up for two years and was just sorely disappointed. (That said, I love Inception and Memento.) Do you understand what I mean?
The same is true for sort of knowing what’s going to happen next. Someone tweeted me and said that perhaps since I know that Angel leaves the show, I can’t truly get invested in his character and his relationship with Buffy. Perhaps that’s true. Or perhaps Angel just isn’t a character I like and I think the two actors have no chemistry. I don’t know. I’ll never know because it’s not 1997.
After 35 plus episodes of Buffy there’s about one thing I know to be true with the series: you’ve got to love the characters. I know that’s sort of true with anything and everything, but I mean that you’ve got to love them. Like, LOVE them. Especially if you want to get through some murky storylines. You have to be invested in what the storyline means for the character more than what the storyline means for you in any which way because, more often than not, the show isn’t really trying to entertain you.
For example: a pack of hyenas possess high school kids — YEESH. But the fact that it showcased the underlying of Xander’s personality — GOOD.
And, for the most part, these characters don’t make it easy to love them. They’re extremely flawed people. Sometimes they’re selfish, sometimes they’re rude and crass.
But if you learn to love them, you’ll find that most times they’re just amazing. And you begin to love them despite their flaws — or better yet, because of them.
The thing is, however, that there’s no other way to view the show. I mean, I know a lot of people may and will disagree with me. However, some of these episodes are tough to sit through. But you have to sit through all of them. You can’t appreciate some of the payoff if you don’t actually…well, suffer through some of it. But if you love the characters enough, then the payoff can be unbelievable. Therein lies the bottom line: is it worth it? I truly don’t know. It’s a lot of work, I won’t lie to you. (You deserve honesty since we’re about to move in together and start a family.) Some people want easy television. Some people might want this.
In an attempt to figure it out, let’s go through everything I like and dislike, starting with the bad news first.
Season-long villains: For the most part on this show, villains are a joke. It’s true of most shows. They talk about how they want to kill someone for 15 episodes and then they do nothing. The Master tried my patience. Spike and Dru did as well.
Sense of gravtias: Whenever the world is going to end for the millionth time, it never truly feels like it’s ever going to end. Sometimes people’s lives are in danger but it never feels like a big deal. And it’s a problem caused by FOTEs, otherwise people who die and then are NEVER mentioned EVER again. When the series tries to make a big deal about it, it sometimes falls flat. For example: Kendra dying didn’t seem like anything Buffy should actually care about, but she did; people drop left and right but Willow decides to cry about it during the season finale; Jesse, Willow and Xander’s friend from the pilot, is just NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN. No one cares. Until the script tells them to.
Spike & Dru (and Angelus with them): You have no idea how frightened I am to say this, but as I said honesty is the best policy. This isn’t about preconceived notions. This is just about, quite frankly, being bored. Spike and Dru did little more than stay in their lair and bitch or shriek, respectively. Then Angel(us) came in and made a lot of metaphors about Dru’s vagina. The first time was fun (I made a big point about it in my recaps) but after the eighty seventh vagina joke, it was like: okay we get it, you mean her vagina. Let’s move on, please. But then he made another vagina joke. And then Spike bitched about it. And then there was that one time he stood up from his wheelchair and laughed. I don’t know. I didn’t really make this a secret, to be honest. And if you look back at my favorite episodes of season two, you’ll find they don’t feature Spike and Dru which was weird because I previously didn’t like standalones. I would sometimes see they were guest starring in the episode during the opening credits and sort of get irritated by it.
Dialogue: One of the best aspects of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is the interactions with characters, which is just amazing. And the dialogue even more so. It’s cheeky, self-referential, and somehow also contains substance. In other words, it’s perfect.
Sarah Michelle Gellar: You know how Sarah Michelle Gellar will break her voice a little bit and then her eyes get all glassy and then your heart just aches? Oh, my god, she kills me. For that, and for anything she actually says from bitchy one liners to oblivious jokes to kicking ass, she’s fantastic. And by the same vein, so is the Buffy character.
The Ensemble: There isn’t one series regular that is unlikeable. I know, I made a lot of jokes about Angel being unintelligible, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like him. Everyone is great and there isn’t one scene with them where you go “Ugh, not a Willow scene.” Also, no one would say that because WILLOW IS THE EFFING BEST AND I WILL BEAT YOU UP. Okay, I might curl up in the fetus position, but.
Spike in “Becoming”: Okay, but there IS good news about the Spike situation. I really, really liked him in “Becoming,” in which I started getting a sense as to why people liked the character (because it was seriously lost on me before then). He was in fact witty and clever and not just complaining. I don’t know in what capacity he returns but if there’s more of him in that aspect, then I suspect I won’t groan when I see his name. I would look forward to it.
Angel(us): If there’s one villain the show finally got right, it’s Angel. There’s just no denying it: he was great. So much so that I actually groaned when his soul returned.
Since some people — well, a lot of people — compare Buffy and Diaries on a weekly basis in the comments, and since a couple wanted to hear my comparisons by the end of season 2, I figured I could offer that this week.
Here are two things that are no secret: (1) The Vampire Diaries is one of my favorite shows on air currently (it’s even in my bio below this post); and (2) I vehemently did not enjoy season 3 of The Vampire Diaries. You can go back and read my reviews about how I grew more and more frustrated with the show each week in season 3, after the winter break. The reason for that being that the show had zero direction, focused on twelve different love triangles, and became wildly predictable. But I also really loved season 2 and the latter half of season 1.
If I had to offer my comparisons, it would be that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a character-driven vampire series and The Vampire Diaries is very much a plot-driven vampire series. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with one or the other. Some people love to fall in love with characters and some are only along for the ride; it just depends on what you’re into. Then again, I’ve never really seen why people frown upon television that’s for your entertainment. It is, after all, supposed to be entertaining first. (That’s my stance on television, anyway. But of course, I’m the guy who thinks Mad Men is completely overrated, so what do I know? I think I just discredited myself as a TV blogger forever.)
I just think that they’re completely different beasts. And, seriously, the third season of TVD has greatly tarnished it some in my view. But TVD does have some great mythology, it does have great plotlines and twists (used to have?). Ultimately, where I think TVD is inferior to Buffy is the moral compass. A lot of TVD‘s storylines could be improved if there were any morality to it all, but there sort of never is. Even the love triangles would be infinitely better and perhaps actually enjoyable (what I mean by that is: by the end of season 3, can anyone answer who was Damon and who was Stefan? wouldn’t it have been awesome if Damon remained bad and Stefan “good” and see how they satisfied different aspects of her being?). And there’s no denying that there’s a definite sense of right and wrong on Buffy. I know there’s a hookup between certain characters later on, and I can only hope that the moral thing comes into play…because it would be awesome.
Okay, I’m sorry. Longest intro ever (if you read all of this). Let’s get to recapping some episodes. This week, we watched eight episodes (that’s right!). We wanted to finish season 2 as quickly as possible, and then we added a second day. The second day was to get to the end of season 3 by mid-August, which is when I will definitely stop organizing live rewatches. At that point, or maybe sooner, it’ll be in the hands of the community, who seems set on continuing. Some also wanted the second day to add Angel to the viewing. Either case, let’s do this.
I don’t remember the exact reason why, but I remember saying to myself: This is my favorite episode of Buffy. It’s been a long time since I’ve watched the episode (I watched it almost two weeks ago) but I’ve kept it in my mind that I wanted to write that here. From what I can recall, this was also the funniest episode of Buffy yet. I seriously almost cried about three times.
The line that sticks out to me is: “That thing on her face. You know, that thing? I can’t be the only one who’s noticed that thing.” Hahahaha, I’m literally laughing as I type this. For that, it’s my favorite.
Here’s what happened: Buffy got knocked on her ass while fighting Angel and needed to go to the hospital thanks to a virus that’s been going around Sunnydale. While there, she realizes there’s someone that’s going around sucking kids’ lives and killing people. Then she realizes that same thing killed her cousin or something. It’s cray! And then she saves the day. End of episode.
Futuristic References: The episode begins with the idea that these kids are seeing some monster in their dream. And that’s TOTALLY…
Again. Which is a past reference, however. But then it turns out that it’s only kids who can see some sort of spiritual/monstrous thing, and THAT’s totally…
AGAIN. But then it turns out that you need the sickness to see it and that’s not anything that I can remember right now.
And Buffy was NOT happy about it.
The Grade: Seriously, I think this was the funniest episode ever. I’m a sucker for a few laughs.
In this episode, everyone is sort of like “Buffs, you needs tuh get laid again. Who cares that your boyfriend turned absolutely evil and killed our close friend and yadda yadda yadda?” Anyway, it also turns out that some guy who had an inappropriate relationship with some teacher half a decade ago is possessing kids at school and killing them.
Anyway, he possesses Buffy and Angel and they kiss and it’s finally all over. And then Spike rises from his wheelchair.
The Grade: I actually also really like this episode, as well. So much so, I was actually a little disappointed that the episode we ended up watching live was “Go Fish” instead of any of these. Ugh, so tragic. Good episode!
Oh, my god, why? What was this?
Anyway, we’re continuing with the whole Buffy Needs To Get Laid theme. At a beach party, some guy hits on her but it’s the biggest non-story ever. Anyway, it turns out that the swim team at Sunnydale High are becoming fish-things. And then Buffy saves the day. The end.
For the most part, the only reason this episode was good was so that we could point out people we know from it.
OR, since I had the most HILARIOUS tweet that NO ONE noticed:
Oh, wait.
Teacher Willow: Okay, this has been going on for some time but it seriously makes zero sense. In this episode, Willow is threatened by the principal to pass the swim team because obviously, but doesn’t Willow have, like, OTHER classes to be in? There isn’t just ONE computer lab period. She MUST have some other classes she’s not attending? Is she getting paid? SOMEONE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.
The Grade: Ugh.
Okay, let’s actually recap now since these episodes matter. Once again, part 1 of a two-parter episode is the weakest. And you knew that would happen once Angel walked out of some Irish pub and started speaking all Irish-like.
LOLWUT?
Anyway, then he spots Darla.
And that’s the story of how Angel became a vampire. Or Ay Vam-py-err.
And then in the present, Angel is creepin’ on Buffy slayin’ some vamps and he whispers something. Cue theme song.
Anyway, we return and Giles sees that some guys dug up something that seems non-important but will later be the gate to hell. No biggie.
Back at school, everyone’s asking if Buffy is ready to fight Angel yet. And Buffy’s like “Yeah, it’s the season finale, I’m good now.” And then Xander wants to touch Cordelia after eating fish sticks but she doesn’t want him to because he has “fish hands” however just last week she was okay with him being ALL fish. WHAT?
We flashback in 1860 and Dru’s about to make a confession. Except Angel is on the other side of the confessional. It’s the beginning of him making her crazy. Flashforward to present day and Angel, Dru, and Spike are talk-whispering to each other. You know what that means!
Anyway, they find out that the gateway to Hell is at the museum so they’re happy about that.
I know people have explained the Angel curse to me and the show has explained it but seriously it doesn’t make any sense. The only way it makes sense to curse someone with this is if the gypsies are in fact dumbasses. “We’re going to make sure you don’t kill nobody no mo’. But if you’re ever content with the fact that you ain’t killin’ nobody, we gon’ make sho you kill mo’ people.” WHAT? So, let’s just go with that they are dumbasses so I can find peace with this plotline.
We go from this scene to the dumbass gypsies cursing Angel.
The gang was in the library trying to figure out what to do with the restoration spell.
And then Xander said Jenny is dead and people got pretty mad.
Okay, to be fair, it was the context in which he said it. But still.
For the most part, that’s what’s important in part one. Oh, and we find out that Angel has been creepin’ on Buffy ever since the last slayer dies. And Kendra shows up, proving that she should never have left (and also Faith proves that in season 3…) and then she dies. And it’s a really big moment on the show, apparently.
Anyway, and then the cops tell Buffy to freeze and she’s all:
The cops try to book Buffy because it looks like she killed people or whatever, but she uses her strengths as a slayer to get away and the principal is there. May I say, however, that Principal Snyder finally made sense in this episode where he really just wants Buffy out of the high school so that PEOPLE CAN STOP DYING OMG FINALLY. Jesus. These people just die left and right.
So it turns out Willow is slightly hurt.
And NO ONE knows WHEN she’ll wake up!!!!!!!!
Then she wakes up like two minutes later.
Meanwhile, Spike and Buffy have teamed up to take down Angel (who has kidnapped Giles to help him open the gateway to hell), but Joyce is all “WHERE THE EFF HAVE YOU BEEN? COPS ARE CALLING YOU A MURDERER! YES HELLO???”
And then THIS HAPPENS OMG:
OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! YUS YUS YUS FINALLY OH MY GOD AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I seriously yelled at my television. YELLED. Finally, Buffy told her mom after telling strangers and their brothers who she is. YES.
On a related note, something I’ve been meaning to ask since episode one, why do vampire’s clothes also disintegrate into dust when they’re staked? Anyone?
So anyway, Buffy finally told her mom and the show uses it as a very obvious coming out parallel (“This is because you never had a strong father figure in your life”) and I was very excited and then Joyce just HAD TO RUIN IT. Ugh, Joyce, why? Look at your choices, Joyce!
Buffy is all “Um yeah I needs tuh save the world” and Joyce is like “Yeah no that’s not gonna happen” and Buffy’s all “SERIOUSLY WHAT IS YOUR ISSUE?” and Joyce is all “BIHHH DON’T EVEN.” So Buffy walks out, even though Joyce gave her an ultimatum — that she wouldn’t welcome her back, which we all know is total bull coming from Joyce but still…dang yo, dat hurts.
Anyway, after a lot of hullabaloo, Angel and Buffy are fighting to the death because he just opened the gate to hell. It turns out that his blood is the only thing that can close it. So as they’re fighting, back at the hospital, Willow is trying to do the restoration spell. And it works! And even though all hell needs is a drop of Angel’s blood to close, Buffy decides to stab him and push him in.
And then Buffy skips town and people are sad.
And that’s season 2.
The Grade: Not bad at all. To tell you the truth, Joyce finding out made this episode for me. And I’m much more interested in things that can come from this more than what actually happened, for example: Witch Willow or Not Boring Spike!
In this episode, we find that Buffy has been living under the radar as Anne in some town as a waitress. Then some FOTEs arrive and one of them gets kidnapped to hell and then Buffy saves the day. And then she comes back home. But when she knocks on the door, Joyce is organizing a LOT of dishes in the dishwasher. Why? How many dishes does Joyce have? It’s just Joyce living all alone? How many dishes can ONE person make!?!?!!!
It was touching.
So there was really just one thing we truly learned in this episode, that the time in Hell is much slower than the time on Earth. Everyday is like one hundred years in hell or something. So Angel has been in hell for a looooooooooong time.
Also, this was very much an episode where people crept up behind other people. Did anyone notice this?
I mean, even in this AIDS poster at the clinic place.
Can we TALK about this poster!? The poster was also in the season 2 finale.
It reads: “AIDS: It doesn’t discriminate.” WHAT? And why is that guy creepin’ behind the girl there? Also, it looks like a very poorly-written Lifetime movie. I don’t know why I was so fixated on this poster but it was very odd to me. I can’t be the only one who notices these things.
The Grade: Just fine.
So, I’m not going to lie to you, but during this episode the whole Kristen Stewart cheated on Robert Pattinson news broke and I was too busy making jokes about that because I’m a huge dick than paying much attention. However, there was one very important scene during this episode. And it wasn’t just how Buffy was absolved of all charges for committing murder (even though she didn’t) like nothing. It was quite anticlimactic.
No, it was everyone blowing up in Buffy’s face.
In this episode, Joyce gets drunk at a teenage party she’s throwing where there’s underage drinking and drug use because she’s an unfit mother like why else would she allow this? Anyway, she catches Buffy trying to runoff again.
It was like, okay we get it, it WAS kind of selfish. But dang Buffy had just saved the world for the millionth time, she just needed some SPACE.
Anyway, they all work it out. The end.
The Grade: I need to rewatch this but something tells me that Willow and Buffy bonding plus Zombie-like things is A plus!
I refuse NOT to put that second comma there. Anyway, this episode was about new people entering Buffy’s life. (And about her entering school again. Spoiler: she does. So, moving on…) First, we have Scott Hope.
He seems cool, I guess. Sort of too accepting. Like, all Buffy does is run away from him and yell as she drops jewelry. Anyway, he wants to ask Buffy out a lot ever since that episode we never saw him in.
And then, of course, there’s Faith.
This is a character I’ve actually been able to know nothing about, so I’m very proud of myself and the Internet here. To be honest with you, I think a character like Faith is exactly what Buffy was missing. Like the people in the show, I’m basically already lovin’ her.
(But okay seriously why couldn’t Kendra have stayed in Sunnydale again?)
And then there’s the bad guy of this episode.
The character was TOTALLY understanding of how there are only white people in Sunnydale, and the actor was having a LOT of fun with his character. I like it.
Anyway Faith and Buffy don’t get along too well but then they get over it. And then Buffy confesses what happened with Angel. And then Angel comes from hell and shows everyone his coin slot.
I didn’t even know you could do that on broadcast television. WHAT?
Futuristic References: Calling people by the first letter of their name is TOTALLY Gossip Girl.
The Grade: Finally a third episode I can agree with. We’re back on track. I don’t really know what Angel’s coming back really means for the story as a whole (it’s not surprising that I don’t really care for him to return with his soul intact) but I guess I’ll just have to wait for the story to play out.
And with that, we’ve begun season three! Whew. That was a lot of nothing. I’m sorry. I’ll be better next time…and quicker! (You don’t hear people say that everyday, eh?)
Remember, we’re watching Mondays and Tuesdays over at #BuffyRewatch!
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Yeah, Go Fish is....uhhhh. I seriously can't find anything good in that episode apart from anti-rape message in the car scene.
Becoming I and II I love dearly. Mainly because it changes the show entirely. it changes every character, it changes buffy, it sets up plots in motion that matter till the end of the show,well, both shows actually.
And what's beautiful is that a lot of this season episodes come to play thematically and plot-wise - the idea of Buffy having to kill an innocent(notably "Ted" episode for aftermath and "I Only Have Eyes For YOu" pretty much foreshadowing the end of the season), Buffy's problems with police(that get referenced),
Hell, even Kendra's death and library attack happens this way because of what Angel learned in "When She Was Bad" - he uses exact same tactic as vampires did that episode and even references that.
What's more its something that directly affects everyone's character in the Season Three.
Anne is all about both sides(Buffy and Scoobies) dealing with that. Buffy has to learn to live with herself, literally, and scoobies - to live without her, to rely on each other. I love the episode for frighteningly accurate display of Los Angeles too, having lived there and its nice set-up for Angel The Series, considering it takes place in Los Angeles.
Now, Dead Man's Party - one has to realize, just because Buffy is the "hero", it does not mean that she will get slack from characters for what she did. Yes she had to kill Angel and all, but from viewpoint of those people, her friends, her family, she disappeared for months without them knowing anything of her well-being. She abandoned her job, something that is also pretty much incomprehensible to her friends who sort of idolized her as someone who would not do that, what hurts Giles as a person too. She made Joyce feel like crap for months.
So she left them all for months and no one knows how to react to her anymore. Can they trust her decision making? Can they restore the friendship they had? How does one reincorporate into their life a person who disappeared on them for this long.
Faith, Hope and Trick also continues to deal with those themes - Buffy being clearly affected by everything that ever happened to her in previous two seasons. This Buffy is a whole lot more insecure, tries to cling at her normal life a whole lot more, is a wee bit more hysterical and unsure of herself and feels that everyone around her tries to challenge her.
Which is direct opposite of how Faith behaves and interesting that Buffy from the moment one she takes dislike of Faith - She sees Faith as someone free, someone who does whatever she wants and someone who enjoys the whole mesh of normal and supernatural. Her first idea is to antagonize her(Seriously, Buffy, are you commenting on her beating vampires to a pulp? did you forget "Ted" suddenly and your tendencies to do the same?) and thats only normal - Faith represents for her everything that she denies to herself in her position.
Buffy takes the whole destiny thing as a calling, having this whole illusion of being superhero(which is a bit shaky right now). She tries desperately to separate everything into Right and Wrong and is obsessed with making morally right decisions because of the complex mix of everything that has happened in her life. Her cousin's death, her parent's divorce, her mother feeling disappointed with her - about all of those Buffy fears of being responsible for. thus she constructs this "superhero" persona that "obviously" could nto be at fault for all of that and tries to live it.
Faith does not do that. She takes it as it is and enjoys her job, without limiting herself into moral complexities. She views the world as a gray-morality kind of thing. Of course she is running from her own demons, just like Buffy, but she does not make a big deal of the whole "being a slayer" thing - and that irritates Buffy, because it goes against her own little "superhero" sand-castle she has built.
Angel coming back...hoo boy, this is going to be both incredibly uncomfortable and fun. Nothing will be the same. Angel has done a lot of things that the entire cast would not be able to just shrug off. he killed people, he tortured people, he hurt people. And its not something you can erase. Its not something you can just forget by just saying "hey its new season now~"
Also Season Three is where more serialized, instead of more episodic, story-telling becomes more prominent. Far less time passes between episodes and they continue from each other without being two-parters. There are almost no unconnected "go fish" style story of the week episodes.
Needless to say I enjoyed third season a bit more than second and that is the tendency I see with this show(unlike TVD) - each season improves upon what is already there, ironing out the weaker parts.
the problem with TVD is JP, she does not want to see beyond her vision. with new spoilers feel that complicates the plot to a point we will not know that the series will.
From S1 Buffy always felt vibe of what was the story, carry on with that idea was developed and became more than the slayer. It remained faithful until season seven and why so many fans.
JP also has a sexist mindset cause even her female vampires are limited next to their male counterparts.
Like I've pointed out Caroline is not even consistent she goes from being able to beat up Damon to getting kidnapped and torture and for some reason these women are not allow to stay mad at anyone for an extended period of time.
Yep, sexism and misogyny in vampire diaries is one reasons on why that show became trash so quick.
I only have eyes for you is where Whedon realize David Boreanez could carry his own show (and he did). While you may not care about Angel with his soul, I will still recommend watching the first two seasons with BTVS seasons 4-5.
I can also get the impression Bangel may not be popular because they are dated and due to all their obstacles you know they won't overcome them, so why get invested. also the 90's and early 2000's was different world for teen drama, virginity play a bigger role in storylines for the main character than it does in today's shows. Really sex itself is non-issue.
TBH I don't think most people like season 2 Spike as he pretty much gets owned by Angelus. I think most people when they are discussing "not boring" Spike, it is in his later appearance.
I personally don't mind Angelus talking about Dru's vagina as it only done to just eff with Spike's head.
Drusilla also got props from me when she killed Kendra with her finger nail. You got to admire that. I kind of upset you didn't screen cap that one.
Yeah Angel coming back, don't dwell on getting an explanation any soon there. You will get one though, I just won't tell you when.
While your right that their difference (I think majority of us are aware of the difference), TVD failed when it came to their plot and blew their mythology apart towards the end of season 2 with fake moonstone and making the damn originals not even really old vikings that live in Virginia. I'm okay with plot driven shows too but that not an excuse not to develop your plots though. I guess my problem is JP actually thinks her show is character driven, hence the nonsense she sprouts like the great friendships and character arcs. Maybe if the she and casts stop that, people will be less incline to take the show to task when it comes to character part of the show.
I too thought the gypsy curse was dumb as hell too (may had to do more with how I realize Bangel will never get happy ending-you know cause Whedon don't believe in that) until I got the point was Angel was to be reclusive and walled up somewhere thinking of all the bad he did (once again me reiterating the fact Angel other than maybe Stroker's version of Dracula is the only vampire who has the right to be upset and broody as hell) and not truly allowed to live. He was not suppose to put himself in situation like that but due to circumstances we later found out on Angel, he put into situation where he find such happiness. I not sure if that a better analysis but while the go to explanation is that gypsies were dumb but maybe we are just too simple for this very complex curse (cause despite popular belief, Angel can still engage in sex).
Yep, Agreed. Angelus is over-emphasizing the everything with Dru to torture Spike till it kind of backfires.
Angelus is the classic Joker-type of villain - he plays around and tortures mentally his targets wanting to see how far they can go, when can they break, etc. Well, in case of Spike, it turned out not as good for Angelus himself, lol.
And yeah, agreed about Spike. Don't get me wrong, how Spike is in S2 is good, but it lacks context. And his latter appearances deliver that context, so viewers who know how Spike's story goes, can already appreciate him during S2, while newcomers -not as much.
And yep, strongly agreed about TVD>
Back then when the show was just starting KW and JP were all "We don't wanna be Twilight, we will be more like Buffy" well...they failed.
The plot of TVD was quite coherent and consistent in the first season, with storytelling narrative and flashback usage reminiscent of Angel The Series.
Somewhere during S2(I'd Say around Masquerade) it all went horribly wrong.
BTVS starts with a kind of shaky plot, but manages to build upon those foundations brilliantly, as it starts to show in S3. The amount of coherence and consistency surprising. It already sort of started with certain episodes in S2, but S2 was still transitioning from the whole "episodic monster of the week" format. and S3 is where the show "graduates" from that. And eventually BTVS manages to be BOTH Character-drive and Plot-driven at the same time.
Agreed about Angel. He is someone who has every right to brood. The guy's done a lot of fracked up stuff. Horribly horrible stuff. So much horrible stuff that it took 5 seasons of Angel the Series to sort through even a miniscule bit of it all(not to mention that he kept doing questionable decisions)
The Gipsy curse is sort of "weak" in idea, but one has to realize that it has to be. For one, its a bunch of heart-broken people turning towards magic for revenge(something that never works out). They did not tink far beyond the "he will suffer now" idea and not letting him be happy. And hey - it all worked as intended, till an unknown side represented by Whistler showed up, dragged Angel to see Buffy and started this whole mess. Secondly, its something that HAD to happen, as Angel The Series points out. Its a part of grand-scheme of things bigger than any of them.
I personally did dislike Angel a lot in BTVS, but I warmed up to him in spin-off. Maybe because he, when not being around Buffy, became a whole lot more free and could display sides of himself that Buffy would very much dislike.
Yeah my problem is TVD went about in their ads trying say it wasn't like twilight and was actually story about characters but lately have been engaging in twilight things. I mean while they joke about TB thing in the after panel interview with TB panel moderator, I actually watch the TB panel and you can tell they don't care TVD as a show. The only person I am aware who watches that show is Nelsan Ellis.
Like while I love sex on my tv, TVD uses it an extreme which is okay but anyone noticed most of that footage is from season 1. Misleading as hell. And reducing your show to being shallow. Their comic con panel was a joke and I rather a show like Lost Girl was given that slot. BTW I noticed it been 3 years of them going to comic con and Kat is the only series regular who has yet gone. I am sure the Warner Brothers pays for the cast trips, so I still confused as to why she has not been asked come along (cause mind you she was only asked to Paley, to restore good faith with Bonnie fans, which they lost in a week due to Mysticgate).
And then don't get me started on the photo-shopping that started in season 2 and then we get the comic con poster that photo-shopped Matt and Jeremy in. Why are we overusing that tool, marketers, Twilight only uses it because their actors need it, no one on the tvd cast needs that.
I realize I went completely off-topic but I guess this draws back the difference is BTVS had a likable supporting cast, TVD doesn't as they don't use their supporting cast as other than cattle to slaughter because as much as Paul, Nina and Ian like to say their jobs aren't guarantee, am I suppose to believe they are going to be killed anytime soon. I actually really saw Whedon actually killing Buffy, just because he felt like it. He's a George R.R. Martin that way.
Yep, with buffyverse, there comes point when one could actually consider the idea of well, entire cast getting dead, without writing it off as something that would never happen.
Whedon really does masterfully drive in the whole "death is final" message and that characters are not invincible and are fragile enough that anything could kill them if they get unlucky.
When you brought up Kat.Graham I remembered another thing I hate about tvd - overuse of magic as plot device.
There are no real consequences to magic in that show. Everyone is getting revived, healed, unvamped, etc, etc, etc. Need to defeat a villain? Call bonnie. need to prevent turning? Call bonnie. Need to revive Jeremy? Call bonnie.
BTVS handled magic as this dangerous wild force from the day one. It set certain rules and it followed them(like the whole dead stay dead idea) and the show managed to drive it into our heads that magic is dangerous and unpredictable. That magic is deadly and that magic always has consequences, that you can't get anything by paying nothing. Any sort of power always has its price, to the point that the characters would have to weigh the danger of using magic to achieve something, against the possible consequences of it. That's the thing about magic, there's always consequences.
TVD lacks that and uses up magic spell plot device to a ridiculous levels. Now they are trying to drive up the whole "evil bonnie" storyline from what it seems, but its way way way too late. Not to mention that with the lack of ANY SORT OF consequences or moral compass in that show, I doubt it will have any sort of lasting effect.
I am all for evil Bonnie if evil means she just goes bat shit on everyone but
my problem is I wonder what would push Bonnie over the edge when none of those other horrible things didn't. Elena turning should not be the reason she goes crazy.
Kat keeps talking about it being justified in going evil, I think once your mother got turned (while both men implying they were about to kill you) and no real apologies ever made. And the fact you have the rest friends in the world, is justifiable to go ape shit on these people.
I disagree there is consequence to magic and it called the witches get screwed over or death (unless your Esther). I am still pissed they are saying the witches are Bonnie's problems because technically they weren't. Esther was no sister and I pissed why the writers started Esther on that sister bs. This ain't Charmed.
But the consequences are not really felt.
For two seasons they solved EVERYTHING with it. Daylight rings? Check. Plot armor rings? Check. Sacrifice Ceremony making sure elena does not turn? Check. I think it finally brought my suspension of disbelief down to zero when Bonnie revived Germy out of nowhere. And then season three went all batshit crazy on the viewers with out-of-nowhere magic plot devices everywhere. And let's not even start on the hilarious "afterlife" concept which completely ruined all upcoming and happened deaths for me.
They are trying to add consequences, but even those serve only for plot reasons.
I don't like how witchcraft is handle but my main issue with it the fact if witches are such powerful beings why are they always getting used and their consequence is death. Witches aren't on enough to get the consequences of what they do which if one should think of about it if done for vampires their consequence is virtually slavery or their death.
Bonnie's consequence is she is a slave and not person according to these folks. I just wish those who benefited from the witchcraft actually got the consequences as none the witchcraft perform on this show has been performed by a witch benefiting themselves, it all for others hence the difference between TVD, BTVS and Charmed. Witchlore in TVD changes too much and guess what JP planinng retconing her original vampire story, apparently there is a possibility someelse used the vampire spell.
AFterlife concept was all around dumb, it was more believable that witches could do that but not all the time. all those possessions esther could do was dumb. And I could buy the witches house because they died in a violent matter ergo I assume they couldn't ever move on.
with the exception of Esther, I do think witches do receive unwarranted consequences so I feel the need to defend tvd witches because they do suffer more than any other supernatural force.
I do think the whole moral compass comes to play here though as to why witchlore is screwed up.
What I found the most hilarious is when Rose is all "oh yeah, ____ and ___ are so okay chilling there in the afterlife, sipping pina coladas and living good (un)life."
its like show itself just stopped trying by that point.
Bonnie's magic is also convenient as is the rest of the witches powers as sometimes they can't do things but then turn around to be able to do something pretty easy.
I would argue Bonnie receive a consequence when Jonas took her powers away but of course the writers didn't want to concentrate on that and she got them back right away as result of Jonas's death (you know his consequence for trying to get payback for his son while the end goal in mind was saving his daughter).
And my on-topic point is it was consistent for Angel to be discussing Dru's crazy vagina as he like a maniacal person who like poke his captive with a hot poker and Spike makes it easy for Angel to comment on it (It sort of like bullies once they aware of what bother you, they will always use it against you). That's the thing about Angelus man he picks one thing and goes with it until he breaks you down and then kills, set you on fire, give you life again, and rinse and repeat.
"I'm okay with plot driven shows too but that not an excuse not to develop your plots though."
I meant to say "I'm okay with plot driven shows too but that not an excuse not to develop your characters though."
Holy crap, I never noticed Shane.
me too. everyone was there....
Yeah thinking about it every important young actor did make an appearance on Buffy. Also WB like to share actors. I mean Jason Behr will end up getting Roswell after his Buffy appearance.
Thing the First: For me, this show gets consistently good starting with episode 8 of season 3 (and why, yes, you will see more of Spike in the future). While the overarching storylines of season 2 were darn good, all the crap in between kind of ruins it. Starting with season 3, not only are the long term arcs fantastic (though the Buffy/Angel drama of season 3 gets stale pretty quickly), but everything in between is still relevant, even when it's not dealing with the Big Bad.
Thing the Second: Willow is quite possibly my favorite fictional character ever. Every time she comes on screen, I just want to hug her. And her character development over the course of the series is astonishing. She changes in so many crucial ways, but she's always ultimately the same person underneath with the same flaws and insecurities, and the writing always brings her back to that. And Witch Willow is just . . .happy-making. There's an episode later on in season 3 (I won't tell you which one or when it happens, but it's the reason that one of the commenters on here uses the name "bored now") that is just kind of the greatest thing ever. Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one who squees at her amazingness.
Thing the Third: As great as the early seasons are, for me, the really impressive storytelling happens in seasons 5 and 6. There seems to be a huge division among fandom of loving either the early or the late seasons, but in my view, 5 and 6 are where Joss beautifully declares full-out "YOU WHO HOPE FOR HAPPY ENDINGS ARE DELUDING YOURSELVES. I WILL NEVER LET ANY OF THESE PEOPLE BE HAPPY. EVER." But the sheer brilliance of the emotions in those seasons (not to mention a couple of OMGWTFBBQ plot twists) are what I think of when I think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Anyway, it's really a shame we obviously can't get that far in the rewatch, but I find I'm really interested to see your reactions to them. Any chance you'll keep watching the show and keep going with these (fantastically entertaining) reviews sometime in the future?
Well S3 has more consistency between the episodes from the very start. Anne leads directly to Dead Man's Party and so on. Its already less disjointed, but it surely gets whole lot more consistent when the real plotline of the season starts. I would disagree about bangel drama, because for me its all part of the consequences of Season Two events and its kind of beautiful watching everything everywhere between everyone, falling apart.
And yep. Willow is my second favorite character too(first being Buffy). A lot of how we might see her for first seasons is quite deceitful of Whedon, but I love the character for all the flaws she has and I just love seeing how everything "unravels" about her. She is almost as fascinating as Buffy for me and there's a frightening amount of consistency with her character, with the latter events making us look back to everything in the first few seasons and see it in entirely different way. .
VERY MUCH AGREED WITH THE THIRD POINT. Fifth, Sixth and seventh seasons are what made this show brilliant and the best ever for me. Sure a LOT of it is horribly disturbing and a lot of it is very bleak and dark, but I just can't help it. its so damn fascinating. Its a pay off for those people who cared about those characters, as Whedon adds even more complexity and interesting angles to those characters. Its emotionally destructive fiction at its best :)
Almost forgot, this bit:
"On a related note, something I’ve been meaning to ask since episode one,
why do vampire’s clothes also disintegrate into dust when they’re
staked? Anyone?"
Just like with weapons in normal mythos(the whole "weapons taking characteristics of their wielders" stuff), clothes and weapons in buffyverse become "connected" to someone owning them. Thus if vampire wears some set of clothes for a longer time or wields some kind of weapon for a longer time, it becomes an extension of who they are, thus becoming dust together with them if they are in contact with it at that moment.
The exception is magical artifacts imbued with obvious magic power, like rings, jewelry, magic weapons or anything extremely-well crafted by master craftsmen. Those have a strong "personality" of their own, imbued by their creators and do not get "connected".
Of course it is not limited to vampires - something owned by supernatural evil(or good) might take up evil(or good)l qualities, give off certain scent or an aura, be in some ways connected to its original wielder/wearer. Thus you can have the things like an identical sword crafted and used by the same person who wielded the first one, being capable to reseal Acathla and stuff like that.
Stuff also can leave an "impression", memories, emotions, upon items, places, etc.
Which all boils down to this in terms of vampires:
- Anything they wore or had with them long enough gets dusted if they touch it at the moment of their death. The length of how long it takes to "personalize" an item varies.
- Anything extremely well crafted or magical does not.
Yayyy, season three, finally!! In my opinion, season 3 is when the show really starts to get good.
i can't believe you didn't talk about Oz's explanation of the differences between a shindig, a hootenanny and a gathering! That is one of my favorite lines from the entire series!
I'm really excited for you to get into season 3. It's probably the strongest overall, even though some of the best single episodes are in later seasons. 308 was written by Joss, and it's fantastic.
Ok. to me Becoming was perfect because Buffy did something i never spect to her do. Kill Angelus!!!!! That girl is awesome.... I was little dissapoint you don't make a joke from slow motion on Buffy running :( .
I get it you don't understand why we all obsessed with Angel/Buffy But we do. BANGEL FOREVER <3
S3 moves forward to be darker, complex between all characters especially Buffy and Faith and show us how complicated is been the slayer.
not all are obsessed with BANGEL :)
I appreciate for what it is(tragic finite childhood love that never could be), but its not the ship I sail in :)