Hi, everybody! We saw a lot happen this second episode of TVD. Feel free to join in the discussion by leaving comments below!
1. First off, thoughts on new girl April? It seems that she might actually be sticking around.
Jen| I liked the new girl, I liked how she sucked at grieving, she was cute and seemed interesting. I hope she does stick around!
Denise| The new girl probably holds some secret to the ambiguity of the Pastor’s plan. She definitely knows something. I hope she doesn’t go berserk when she finds out about all the vampires and goes on a quest to avenge her father and team up with Conner or something. I guess it’s nice to see another human in town. Hopefully she “bonds” with Matt and not Jeremy. I think Matt definitely needs something to do in all this.
Camila| I like April so she staying is ok with me. I kind of relate to her too because I can never find the right words to say when something like that happens to me.
Samantha| The whole time I didn’t understand why she was there. There are SO MANY new characters. They are confusing me.
Aditi| She seems okay. I didn’t really see much of her character to make a judgment, but I hope she turns out to be great 🙂 I found her not being able to grieve kind of realistic because it’s such an awkward age as a teen that it makes sense for her not to know how to react to the death of her father that she didn’t really get along with. Also, where is her mother??
Nicole| like her so far but instead of devoting time to new characters, I want more focus placed on the existing characters. And I don’t just mean Bonnie. (but mostly, lets focus on Bonnie more please?)
Monika| I like her because I think her presence means we will see more of the Pastor and his plan in the future!
2. The triangle continues with lots of Damon/Elena interaction this episode, including the feeding scene.
Jen| The Damon and Elena stuff was hot. It was also true to their characters, you know, Elena and Stefan kind of put each other on a pedestal, she wouldn’t want him to see her struggling. She relies on Damon in a different way than she relies on Stefan. I really liked that Caroline was the one who helped her be strong. Stefan and Damon were both pushing their agendas on her. I think Caroline trusted her in a way that the boys didn’t. Stefan doesn’t trust her to go anywhere near it, Damon just wants to give up on her developing self control at all. IDK, I <3 strong female friendships. And Caroline. It was tense when she wanted to go after April. Good stuff.
Denise| I’m definitely a team Damon girl and LOVED the blood sharing scene ;). It hasn’t really been a love triangle since Stefan returned from being the Ripper so I’m really hopeful that after this episode there will be more Damon and Elena scenes. It was kind of unbelievable she went to Damon for help in her most desperate time of need but I guess that goes to show she still trusts and relies on the guy. I hope to see Damon’s character grow a little more, not too much in that he turns into Stefan, but just enough for him to be stable for Elena.
Camila| Love it. The feeding scene was hot, but that’s not what I loved the most. I loved that Elena turned to him for help because she thought that he wouldn’t judge her, that even though he was hurt by her choosing Stefan over him he helped her and that she can now relate more to him, understand him in a way she didn’t before because she was human.
Samantha| *disclaimer* I just read the books over the summer, so everything that happens in them is fresh in my mind and so much that happens makes so much sense in relation to that, including the feeding thing. That being said, I love Damon so much and just want him to be happy. And naked. I would prefer that wasn’t with Elena because I kind of hate her, but whatever.
Aditi|I really liked the Damon/Elena scenes because it really showed how close and interdependent they’ve grown. Despite Elena’s proclamations of love for Stefan, it’s curious that she keeps running to Damon to save her. I don’t know if it’s her unconsciously being manipulative or it’s just that he makes her feel safer than Stefan, but it’s not exactly the picture of romantic bliss between Stelena. I can understand why Stefan was mad at Elena for keeping things from him, but DUDE, you put her up on a pedastal, make her feel like she can’t do anything wrong or she might hurt YOU, so she turns to the person she feels can understand her (which is clearly NOT you), and then you cry foul? Stefan comes off as a really manipulative asshole in that convo. She starts crying because of him. That’s some F-ed up shit.
Nicole|Damon has cute moments with Elena, but they don’t ever resonate with me because he’s still such a dick to her and everyone else most of the time. The lantern ceremony showed that everyone lost lots of people and has problems. Sometimes it feels like Damon is right back where he started, but the end with Alaric, more than anything with Elena, is what proved to me that he’s made progress and is worth caring about.
Monika| I liked all the Delena if only because I can’t take one more monologue from Stefan about what a special, perfect, fragile snowflake his girlfriend is. I like Elena! I don’t like Stefan’s version of Elena.
3. Forget Pastor Young, Connor is the new Big Bad! Any guesses on where he is from and what is he up to? And what’s up with those tattoos only Jeremy can see?
Jen| Connor the Vampire Slayer. I don’t know, he just kind of seems like a prick right now. It was kind of awesome how he didn’t hesitate to shoot Tyler. I liked that Tyler took another one for the team at the end. I’m very, very intrigued by the tattoos. I still don’t get why the Pastor blew them all up. Did I miss something?
Denise| Maybe a witch vampire hunter? Maybe a different kind of witch since Bonnie has no idea what those symbols mean? If only Jeremy could see those tattoos…maybe he’s half alive and half dead? A vampire probably killed his witch wife and she used some last minute dark magic to save his life before her death. Now he’s like some living prophecy or some shiz.
Camila| Ok, we’re supposed to hate him, but he’s so badass I can’t. I know everyone’s saying his plan made no sense but I actually thought it was genius! I mean, besides from stabbing a girl, I loved the plan. Elena wasn’t going to be able to handle the craving if Tyler hadn’t created the distraction. And has anyone noticed that his tattoo is also on Jeremy’s arm on his promotional picture for season 4? Like, what? It seems like a very interesting storyline though and I’m curious.
Samantha| Well clearly he is involved in some sort of dark magic (because every African American on this show is related to withes, remember?), which is why his bullets had those weird markings. And I’m guessing those tattoos relate to the dark magic’s connection to the dead, which is why only Jeremy can see them.
Aditi| He’s probably a witch and the tattoo can probably only be seen by his “true apprentice”. That’s my theory.
Nicole|I’m just going with the odds here, but he is clearly either a witch or related to Bonnie. Maybe both. I mean, isn’t that primarily what people of color on this show are? Either way, I want to like him, but no black character besides Bonnie has survived for more than what, four or five episodes? The reason I kind of like him is because, if there isn’t something we’re not aware of, he was willing to let an innocent person die to get the vampires. This makes his charcater more intersting to me, even if he can make an argument that it’s for the greater good. He’s seems just as likely to kill someone as an average vampire, and morally, Stefan probably has the upperhand over him.
Monika| He seems pretty ruthless. I’m interested in his relation to Pastor Young. He didn’t hesitate to steal the Pastor’s letter to his daughter or even stab the Pastor’s daughter. Is there some bad blood there?
4. Is it just me or was Elena unusually interesting this episode? She drank blood, used her powers, showed emotion, threw up a lot of blood…
Jen| Yeah, Elena is already 10x more interesting as a vampire. All the throwing up blood was gross but kind of morbidly awesome. And her breakdown/speech about how her life has felt like a series of funerals? Actually really moving.
Denise| FINALLY. It was nice seeing Elena mess up for once. It was still annoying how Stefan would say she’s too fragile to handle the thought of killing someone for blood but then he goes to say how strong she is and how she can handle this and that. Elena’s a vampire now and I’d really love to see her fight her own battles. I feel like near the end she was so frustrated and angry about all of the deaths that it might be foreshadowing a possible derail? Maybe she’ll turn off the switch?! I’m hoping for that episode. I love seeing Nina evil (hence my love for Katherine) and not her usual self-righteous blah. When Elena was starving for blood at the church, it was just SO obvious she would be feeding on Matt and that he would be okay with it. The question is…why didn’t he offer earlier? Or even Jeremy? Elena can control her killing instinct with Matt but not with April or whoever? I really don’t understand this. Loved the Caroline and Elena scene as well. Caroline’s character has actually grown so, so much and she was actually comparing April to Elena when they were both human to help her. Very good!
Camila| I thought so too. Unlike everyone else, I don’t think Elena is completely boring but she was much more interesting this episode. I think vampire Elena is being handled very well and I can only thank the writers for that. I loved how she realized something was wrong and actually searched for help instead of believing everything would be ok as she usually does. Caroline helping her with compulsion was also awesome, I hope that they grow even closer now. The throwing up blood was disgusting though.
Samantha| I still found Elena to be extremely obnoxious, even as a vampire. I mean, when they were in the church and she was almost passed out from lack of feeding but she STILL had to be the one to get up in front of everyone and make a speech. Because she thinks she is invincible even when she is dying. Idiot.
Aditi| ) I know, right! Once she was away from the boring “Stefan, we’re perfect!” scenes, she became an actually interesting and dynamic character. More of this please! I also liked her reaching out to April, and trying to use her compulsion to make her feel better.
Nicole| I actually like Elena though she and a lot of things others do on her behalf annoys me. Her talking with April showed off what I liked about her, but I didn’t really find her interesting overall this week. I guess maybe her suffering could make people feel some empathy, but she didn’t have a lot to do. She was sick, and kinda helpless, and it was everyone else who had to help her. The only good part was she glamored April at the end, and that was mostly awesome because of Caroline.
Monika| I loved how graphic this episode was! I like when TVD goes there and having Elena all bloody and gross was fun. Also, I asked this question because I was struck by how much I enjoyed Elena this episode and I’m glad to see a lot of opinions on a similar wavelength. As I said earlier, I think Stefan constantly telling the viewer that his girlfriend is the perfectest perfect that ever perfected makes her boring to us but when Elena is actually shown doing stuff, she’s a lot more interesting.
5. The show finally acknowledged the high death rate of characters at the end with the memorial.
Jen| I was fine through the whole memorial…until the end when Damon was talking to Alaric’s grave and I LOST it. OMG ALARIC WHYYYY :'( :'( :'(
Denise| It was a really good recap of how many characters they’ve killed off since the beginning of the show. I love it how they make cameos from time to time (i.e. Alaric at the end). It’s a little weird how forgiving they all are towards each other but I guess they’ve come to accept it when these are the only people they can actually “trust”. I wish Tyler was there though. The show did a good job of finally acknowledging how many people have died and how it’s not just a game so that was nice. I was disappointed when Damon didn’t take part in the lantern festival but he grieved in his own way at Alaric’s grave so it’s all good. Maybe his babysitting speech is foreshadowing something? Hopefully.
Camila| It was a beautiful scene and it brought up all these old memories. The final scene with Damon at Ric’s grave was the one for me, though. I cried and omg, I miss Dalaric (and Ric himself of course) so much!
Samantha| The Damon and Alaric scene was the saddest thing I have seen in a long time. Poor Damon. And I’m really grateful to the actor who plays Alaric for showing up for filming for that one line of his.
Aditi|I feel like they’ve had about four of these vigils everyone time someone dies (and that’s a lot, by now). So, while the lantern vigil was nice, it was really Damon’s talk with Alaric that hit home for me. Is Damon ever not right?! Never.
Nicole| In shows this like this, I like a high death rate. It seems unrealistic if everyone is in danger every week and there are no causalities on the home team. I think the show is able to write deaths in an emotional, realistic way without it becoming over the top. The deaths of Lexi, Grams (the first time) and Alaric are on par with the show’s greatest stuff. Also, the death toll seems reasonable given that the losses take place over three seasons and before the show began in the case of Elena’s parents.
Monika| LOL at Bonnie forgetting to mention her own mother’s death.
6. Anything else you wanted to comment on?
Jen| I liked when Matt got to help Elena by letting her feed, and I could buy that she didn’t lose control because the fact that it was Matt probably grounded her. Damon was not just annoyingly out of control this ep, which is always nice, because he can be really fun and has some very snappy one liners. I’m starting to like Bonnie, so that’s new. Although what I didn’t buy was Vamp Slayer getting the drop on Damon…what?
Denise| I don’t really know about the hunter. He kind of pisses me off. I really want to know what the Pastor’s plan is and how the hunter is going to be integrated into that plot. Maybe the irony with the vampire hunting vampires with vampires again? That was nice when they did it with Alaric. I liked it when the Originals were the target and not really the main cast so hopefully they’ll all find another common enemy this season. Maybe a pack of werewolves? Overall, this episode was PRETTY intense and exciting throughout. Wish it answered at least SOME questions before creating more but I guess that’s the beauty of tvd. Loved the romance, action, and comedy. There were some pretty hot scenes, had some good fights here to there, and Damon had some pretty epic lines. Also, loved the church scene, “don’t look back, it’s a trap”. Love it when they all use their supernatural powers!!! By the way, almost totally forgot about Bonnie. Bonnie’s character has just been….I don’t really know. She’s just there. Instead of giving Matt something to do, they should really give something ELSE for Bonnie to do. Her scenes are way too short and shallow.
Camila| I love how Tyler’s character has grown from the season one douche to this guy who exposes himself to a guy who has killed him before for the safety of his friends. I still don’t get the Pastor’s plan but then again, who does? Absolutely loved the church scene, they finally used their skills and intelligence for something! I’m intrigued by the Jeremy seeing things storyline again and I hope they use it well this time. All the awards to Matt and Damon this episode. Matt for being awesome and saving Elena and Damon for his one liners. I also felt bad for Bonnie even though she almost didn’t appear. At least we got to see her grief for her grams.
Samantha| I still don’t understand why Elena was vomiting blood, but I missed the first five minutes. It just made no sense to me.
Aditi| I loved the Dalaric talk at the end. Really made me choke up 🙁 I think Damon is such a complex character, and it really pleases me when the show at least tries to tap into that. Elena became much less whiny this episode, and I really liked that. I didn’t think Damon deserved that punch, tbh. That was a dick move, Stefan. Connor = Zzzzz for now. I LOVE TYLER. Can we just comment on how bad-ass he was going up there to “take one for the team”? I also really liked his and Caroline’s relationship and their commitment to each other this episode. Especially when she said “for my dad and Tyler’s” at the vigil. That was sweet, and showed just how close they’ve gotten. I can’t imagine Caroline picking Klaus over him now.
Nicole| “You’re not exactly a drop by kind of guy.” OH BONNIE. Loved that scene and how aware Bonnie was of it and how heartbreaking it was that she was there mourning her Grams again, all alone. I don’t like that she gets treated as a plot device, but most of the time I don’t see it as her having no backbone. Even though she gets hurt and even though she gets no thanks, I think Bonnie is just incapable of not helping. She knows she’s only going to get hurt, but it would hurt worse if something happened and she could have prevented it. Is this a witch thing or a Bonnie thing? I really want to know more about her and witches in general and have since season one because it could be fascinating.
Also, how fucking stupid is it that I got really excited when Bonnie and Damon said two words to each other? I’ll tell you, it wasn’t stupid. The whole reason they did that is because even the tiniest interaction is enough for Bamon fans who will take whatever they can get at this point. I know Damon has declared his love to Elena and he let her drink from him this episode, but Damon asked Bonnie what they were doing there, and I think we all agree that the latter is way more magical (and I’m not even being entirely sarcastic because I am a Bamon fan and I will take whatever I can get).
Monika| It’s already been said but props to Tyler for taking one for the team! I loved the tension of the church scene. Really reminded me of old-school season 2 TVD. I also kind of liked the lack of Klaus. He’s fun but I think we all needed a break.
7. Grade you would give this episode?
Jen| B+
Denise| I’d give this episode a B+!
Camila| A, best episode in a while.
Samantha| B I didn’t understand anything that was going on, but the Damon/Alaric scene saved it for me.
Aditi| B or B+. This was a MUCH BETTER episode than the season premiere. And I hope this upward trend continues! I want to see A+ episodes, TVD 😉
Nicole| B-
Monika| A. Elena was interesting, there was lots of blood, and the church scene brought the tension. I couldn’t ask for more.
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I was and still am sick of Triangle in season 2 it was old back then . DE stuff was staged ok if you are a Fan of that. I see the Writers are doing anything they can think of to put damon and Elena in the same place at the same time doing any thing no matter what . and this ( Although what I didn’t buy was Vamp Slayer getting the drop on Damon) Damon been a good little Lap Dog now for so long so Yes he would be off his Game . Connor is the Only real Bad ass that was in that Fight . April was not needed on the show I would have loved more air time with Bonnie, Matt, Tyler,Jeremy ,Kol,Care's mom, Tyler 's mom ,Bonnie's dad or Mom ,Matt 's Mom or any body else on the show who we want to see more of and April is not one of the things we Needed to see at all . I like Connor a lot more of him on the show in some shower scenes . i liked the Bonnie and Stefan Scene I wanted more of that the scene it was to short for me . Tyler was so much the MVP of this Ep. Matt saved the Day . Care did great this ep to .
7) B-
1. No thoughts on April yet, she was whatever.
2. Wow, well, while everybody was busy enjoying Nina sucking on Ian's arm, I saw something else, something very familiar to season 1 Damon, which I didn't like - abuse. Guys, Damon was the only who enjoyed Elena drinking his blood, while Elena had no clue what it meant, so here he in a way he was taking advantage of the situation for his own pleasure. Sorry, thats not hot, that abuse. And btw, for those who read the books, whatever we saw on the screen is not the same as in the books in terms of intimate because there BOTH characters drank blood from each - that made it intimate, here it was abuse.
3. I don't know he appeared to fast on my screen.
4. Well, she at least a bit better than s3 Elena because she stopped saying everything is going to be ok. I am enjoying her struggle though.
5. Finally, indeed, like 3 seasons late finally!
6. Whew was Klaus?
7. B plus!
Abuse? Um, I think you are taking it a bit far. It's not like he forced he to drink his blood so he could get some pleasure out of it. THAT would be abuse. And even if Elena wasn't having the feeling of intimacy that he was, she was still clearly benefitting from it because she needed the blood.
Abuse does not have to do only with forcing someone to do something. See, if Damon had told Elena about the meaning of trading blood frim vampire to vampire, then I would not have had a problem with it. But he didn't. Elena needs to learn how to control her cravings and the ability to keep the blood down. Even Stefan told her that he couldn't do it when he turned. Damon just gave her something that could make feel better, but thats like offering someone drugs, saying it takes the pain away, and then the person gets addicted. So that's why I didn't like that scene because it reminded me how Damon gave Vicki blood to heal her, and then turned her into a vampire, that went loose on the town, and she ended up being killed. Elena had the right to know what blood sharing means.
I still don't think 'abuse' is the right word to use. Maybe I just have gossip girl fandom PTSD, but I don't think 'abuse' should ever be used to describe a relationship promoted by the network and show runner on a TEEN SOAP OPERA. I think the reasoning for this should be clear.
the better word be "manipulative" in a very slimy way in this scenario though. Cause would Elena had agree to it had she known about it? That what makes it gross.
And on that note no one from the network would ever used that word but that doesn't mean DE are not "abusive" (IMO they are but it more so comes down to emotional for them and let's just say Damon control freak tendencies/tantrums from season 2 made me realize this relationship was not good fit for anyone's well-being).
First, any relationship on TV can be called abuse if it is abuse. It can be promoted one way while the reality of it is different. However, I agree that it wasn't abuse, I don't even think it was manipulative. I think Damon does a lot of shitty stuff to women, and to Elena, but it seemed like he thought time was of the essence. He implied that it was a big deal, but I don't think he saw another way. Elena thought Stefan's tactics weren't working and wanted to see what help Damon could provide.
Weirdly, I didn't like how Stefan handled it. Stefan didn't have the right to be hurt about what Elena did because no one explained clearly what she was doing. Or well, he can be hurt, but I didn't like how he confronted her about it and made her feel bad.
@SamanthaDW:disqus & @facebook-100000589916821:disqus , Ok, how can I explain this, I still find this scene a form of abuse, because if you in the scene Damon says "blood sharing is kind of personal", and Elena asks what does he mean by that, and he just said "Drink", like he was giving an order. At that point she was so vulnerable and weak, of coarse she thought this was a solution. Saying that it is personal does not not necessarily mean, its love making in vampire world. And Elena did not know that specific fact of info. So that is where Damon overstepped as usual, thinking that his way is the best. And for the record, I think both brothers should have worked on a better solution than arguing at which way is better. As for the network, well, its kind of late for that since what Damon has been doing to Caroline and Vicki in season 1, can not be described in any other way than abuse and rape as he used them as his personal blood bag and erased their memory after. Look, I am not one of those crazy shippers, who wants to prove a point by using harsh words. But I just found it so inappropriate that so many people described that scene as hot when in reality it was a girl struggling with adapting to this new horrific nature and having to drink another vampire, and there was nothing romantic about it or hot. Also, Damon had other options, he could take her to his brother and say they need to help her. What? Was he afraid of hurting Stefan's feelings?
I guess I don't understand the implication of blood sharing in TVD world. From the perspective of someone who knows literally nothing about the books, it seemed like he honestly thought that might help. It was pretty clear that it is an - ehm - erotic experience for vampires, but I didn't see that as *why* Damon suggested it.
Damon did tell her it was a big deal. He told her it was kind of personal and she made her choice to do it anyway, to try and see if it would work 'cause she couldn't keep any blood down and was starving. So he didn't trick her or force her into drinking his blood to feel pleasure or to piss Stefan off. He only tried to help her . And she chose to do it anyway, even knowing it was personal. Sorry, but I don't see any abuse here.
Then there's when Klaus "saved" Caroline from the bite.
@01558bfbfed5f63a8e809febdea1f7dc:disqus @facebook-100000589916821:disqus @disqus_eOJ4xlev21:disqus It does shed new light on Klaus giving his blood to Caroline to save her. It was another level of manipulation.
Klaus saving Caroline definitely was done for manipulative purposes to get the Sheriff on his side (with the stupid bonus of Klaus liking Caroline for no reason or because of her fairy light or some ish).
I know. I meant Klaus enjoyed Caroline drinking his blood and Caroline didn't know that.
you do have a point. knowing the writers they forgot that point.
@google-bb930f0a4639d7f0d79f2a0305581e78:disqus , interesting point, I completely forgot about Caroline drinking Klaus's blood and how he clearly enjoyed that. See, that is my problem with TVD writing these days, they completely don't mind showing the young viewers how certain male characters mistreat, manipulate and abuse women. Has Damon ever apologised to Matt for the way he treated Vicki or for the fact that he turned her out of boredom? He was trying to kill the guy last week! Or Caroline for that matter?
Good point, I hadn't thought about that. Well, what I would say about it has been said by QMargo and cacherr so I'll just agree with them lol.
It was manipulative because he did not fully explain the situation and Elena who not in her best mindset or was not feeling would not contemplate. I do think he did it to piss Stefan off as what's the point of telling Elena not to tell him,just so he snidely mention it. Damon deserve to get punched (as he always does).
@disqus_eOJ4xlev21:disqus
In this situation it felt manipulative. However my entire thing is imo DE is an abusive relationship (on both ends), and the more toxic out of the two potential relationships which is why I don't ship Damon with anyone (because his treatment of women in general is just damn right horrible) nor believe Damon's love for Elena changes him for the better (because changing for love of another instead of for yourself never brings real change).
Based on my faulty memory and that I've mostly kept up with but not
watched every episode of TVD, I can't say that I find DE abusive, but
toxic or unhealthy probably does fit. It is hard for me to like Damon
because of the way he treats women. I know that he's attractive and
sarcastic and as full of issues as he is other people's blood, but I
just don't get how I can be expected to root for him.
And I totally agree about Elena's love changing him and it doesn't strike me as romantic.Edward from Twilight is the only other example I can think of right now, but this occurs all the time where the tragic bad guy has a soft for someone. Damon seems ready to murder everyone to keep Elena safe and has said he would before. I get its supposed to mean she's special but its creepy to have such disregard for other life and sounds more like obsession than love or something like redemption to me.
Rooting for characters have been coming harder for me each season because the problem is as much as Julie Plec argue shade of grey. These characters do things that make it very black or white situations (particularly Damon) and it weird watching so call heroes do worst things than the actual villains. I've noticed the gang has been more harmful to one another than actual villains and I've been asking why should we root for them?
As for Damon, his disregard for other lives does make it seem more obsessive than love and comes off as if it really the competition that driving him than anything else. I had issues with the Gone With the WInd comparisons as I saw Damon as being more of a Scarlet while Elena was in the role of Ashley with Stefan being the Melanie. While Ashley's clearly stated he love Melanie, it didn't help he still sent signals to Scarlet, even implying had there been no Melanie, he would have picked Scarlet. I think that describes this triangle perfectly. But I never want to hear again Damon is the Rhett Butler in this story as he too over dramatic, absolute douchey, and big mess to be like Rhett Butler.
Damon did explain but if not the case, I think it was for her not to feel guilty about feeding on him. Maybe if she knew all it meant she would have done it but felt guilty later about it. Damon didn't want her to have that weight on her shoulders. Maybe she wouldn't even have done it and he certainly didn't want her to starve. Anyway, he wanted her to feed on him even without fully understanding what it meant not for pleasure but for her own well being. At least that's how I see it.
Oh, I forgot. About telling Stefan, I don't think he planned on doing that until the moment it happened.
yeah, I don't believe that. It came off as classic Damon d-bag moment.
Something people forget is that *before* Damon offered Elena his blood he suggested that she drink from a regular human. She came to him with a problem, and he gave her her pick from the humans at the bar. Her reaction was a very decisive (and slightly on edge) "NO" (or more like "no, no I can't risk killing someone, absolutely not, no!"). So, instead, he offered her his blood. What was he to do? The girl is starving, she's a new vampire and needs blood (otherwise we see how that turns out) but she won't feed from humans. I'm sure he could have come up with a better solution in time but that's just Damon's way: rash and a little careless.
Elena did not know what it meant. Damon told her it was "a little personal" but didn't explain the connotations of the action. But I also don't think it was because he was trying to manipulate her. We all have seen how Damon thinks his way is the best (and he can often be right) and is stubborn, so he decides to just do things the way he thinks will work. It can sometimes make him an ass, but in this case I really don't think his thought process was: "Oh the girl I love is starving and generally freaking out, lemme take advantage of the situation so I can profit." If that was truly the case then what would have prevented Damon from taking advantage of her in ALL of the situations where Elena was weak in season 3? Either by kissing her or whatever? He's always been pretty straightforward. And most he's done is show up shirtless which, come on, we all love.
Julie Plec stated (imply) he did it to be manipulative.
cool - can I get a link to that? Cause I was looking through her twitter and couldn't find anything - maybe an interview?
in her post-mortem and quite frankly at the end of the day, I don't care enough to continue this discussion. I don't bother with JP's twitter (as that space seems to get her more trouble than do her good). if you want to know her thought just head to vampire-diaries.net.
If we suppose to buy into the return of season 1 Damon, this was something up his alley (I still think he handle telling Elena about Stefan's addiction in season 1 in a shady matter).
Count me out on the whole shirtless Damon thing, I would choose Elijah in his awesome suits any day! =)
yeah it is too much. I think Paul wants to be taken seriously hence why he apparently ask to stop being shirtless and unfortunately I have stop taken Ian seriously as an actor. And while Ian has a nice body, it that earth shattering that I am going to annoy that their plot has gone bad which I've seen shirtless scenes being used to make up for sloppy plot (i.e last season).
Exactly, I mean look at JoMo or Daniel Gillies, they are so incredible as Klaus and Elijah, they don't need to take of their shirts to make me as a viewer interested in them. I just find it sad that they are exploiting Ian's body image to get more attention for the episode, like, Yo, guess whom will we see naked AGAIN? Damon!!!!!!
woah i notice typos what I meant was his body ain't that earth shattering (because the thing that makes Ian attractive is his blue eyes).
for me unless we going see some actual dihh (which I have seen his before, it not like the Fassy's btw Fassy has ruined me)... this is boring and waste of my screen time.
I still find Ed Westwick hot as hell, Chuck Bass never takes his shirt off because he got too much effing swag.
Oh don't get me wrong, I admire Ian and all, just think his acting skills are not being used to their full potential on TVD anymore.
This discussion seemed to get serious, and this is a pointless comment anyway, but word. Elijah is gorgeous.
A few times I've said that I see parallels between Twilight and this series and the production of an abusive element to the relationships Damon has with most women on this show, including Elena, is one similarity. Most people who dislike Twilight will often site the many times in which Edward, and Jacob and even Bella's father, displayed abusive and controlling behavior toward Bella. For instance, taking out the engine from her car to "protect" her from exercising the choice of leaving her own house. Also spending time staring at her while she slept pretty much like a stalker, or an undead creature eying a potential meal. For me I got red flags when Damon forced Elena to drink his blood, not respecting her wishes to face her fate on her own terms. She isn't incompetent, she doesn't need saving all the damn time, she is an adult who is capable of making her own decisions even if they are bad ones. But somehow dissenting fans were expected to coddle Damon b/c he's attractive, he's a tortured soul, he was doing it b/c he "loved" Elena, etc. People make pretty much the same arguments that were made in defense of Edward and people wonder why people express sympathy for real-life serial killers. Or why people will withhold doubt for real-life abusers, rapists and molesters b/c they could hardly imagine those people doing something of that nature. This fuss over men like Charlie Sheen, a known woman beater and potential statutory rapist, there are many men in Hollywood given passes for this kind of behavior but they suffer absolutely no losses b/c no one takes their crimes seriously or takes the victims seriously. Just a list of names: Sean Penn, Mel Gibson, Bill Murray, R. Kelley, Mos Def, Josh Brolin, Bobby Brown, Tommy Lee, Chris Brown, People love to throw victims under the bus.
The narrative has essentially ruined Damon, Stefan and Klaus for me. And other characters have done very questionable things to people they love, like Tyler violently knocking out Caroline so she wouldn't "interfere" with some scheme. I don't ship them with anyone. I'm over it.
Damon was not being genuine. In one breathe he tells Elena to keep the feeding a secret but blabs to Stefan just to get in his craw. Neither of these guys are being the least bit helpful. If anything they are a waste of energy. I can't imagine being Elena, quite frankly I would kill myself. And he on top of that he doesn't even take time to explain what it means to "share" blood while Elena is clearly alarmed and scared. Scared that she might die of thirst. That isn't a good time, if any, to use someone for your own perverted pleasure. Damon treats Elena like a thing, he doesn't respect her as another person and he uses anything she says in opposition to Stefan's vision of her as a strike against his own brother. It's a constant feud and competition with him and for what? At who's expense?
This isn't the only abusive/controlling thing Damon has done to Elena short of taking away her memories without her consent, and they just love taking away people's consent in this show, he has shown that he in incapable of supporting a lifestyle that makes her happy. A lifestyle that respects that lives and happiness of the people that make Elena happy.
This show may be "fantasy" but that does not mean that it isn't used to reproduce or encourage mindsets that are hazardous in real-life. Being a rape survivor I see tons of stuff in media that is very triggering, b/c I know from personal experience and the experience of people I love what abuse looks like, what it feels like, and what it feels like to be told that you're a liar. "I can't imagine how that happened," "he didn't rape you--you had sex with him," "how did it happen--let me consume your painful experience," and so on. I would just love to watch something and be able to shut off my brain but I haven't had that privilege for a long time. B/c the inundation of these kinds of images and messages do add up and I know what they mean.
i got to disagree on Chris Brown being given a pass, he even brought up how is it did one terrible thing years ago and it keeps being thrown in his face despite the fact he had been punished (by the legal system), has been attempting to work himself and has been forgiven by his victim is he still getting ish for it but when Charlie Sheen does the same thing and its "winning". I gave Chris a pass because he was 18/19 when that went down and therefore there is room for change there. R. Kelly who imo has turned himself around is still shunned from mainstream society and unfortunately people will always hold Bobby Brown accountable for Whitney's fall from disgrace no what matter he does. I believe you can do bad things change (if one want to of course), and also believe in people being held accountable for their actions but not to the point that it been 20 years and someone brings up the one time you effed up big time (counterproductive and doesn't help and only would lead to horrible behavior). I agree what in essence you were saying but even with the men you just named there is complete difference how the public treats them. You never hear people bringing up Charlie shooting Kelly Preston in interviews.
I didn't say so much that any of those men were given a pass. What I'm saying is that the things they did never had a significant impact on their careers. The reason Bobby Brown is no longer prominent isn't b/c he's blamed for Whitney Houston's suffering, and quite frankly not too many people took her suffering seriously--it was usually considered a spectacle, it's because he just stopped trying and he fell out of relevance. But after the incident Chris Brown has shown himself to be arrogant and violent. And I strongly believe that there was domestic violence before it was public. Usually it's like that. Sometimes the abuser can become so bold that it doesn't matter where you hit or abuse someone, sometimes even bystanders won't do anything. I've heard the age excuse before. In fact that's exactly what someone said about one of the men who raped me. "He's young, he's a good boy." He's a man and an adult and he's quite capable of harming other people. My understanding is that both he and Rihanna, like a lot of people, were raised in households where domestic violence was normal. I don't think that those things can be so easily changed by doing community service and being banned from the grammies for two years. Neither of us are capable of judging his ability to change but I don't see any change in the attitudes that can lead to physical violence.
My judgement of him is based on his behavior after the fact. He still radiates anger and violence, anger that he was punished for doing something wrong and then reminded of the fact. The fact that Rihanna and most of society has forgiven him doesn't make things right. I don't see him as a monster but I wouldn't trust someone like him to be in an intimate relationship.
I would have added OJ Simspon to the list as well, everyone knows he did it but during the height of the trial it was about doing everything and anything to make his victim look like shit.
As for R.Kelly most people do not view him as guilty of a crime. My view of him is actually quite unpopular. The problem I have with R.Kelly is he has a history of preying on underage women (e.g. Aliyah). I don't really follow his life or anyone's life in particular but I'm familiar with men over 30 preying on girls under the age of consent.
The fact of the matter is when you do something bad you can't just expect it to completely disappear. It's a part of your history forever. I would hope no one would forget the uncle who raped a niece so I treat these situations the same way. All I was saying is our society is generally more forgiving of perpetrators of violence and in some cases actually celebrates them.
I think what you're trying to imply is a relative racial privilege, but I don't feel that just b/c men like Charlie have it easy means that these guys don't deserve any scrutiny whatsoever. I'm aware of the disparity in treatment, in select cases, but to me that just means those men should be receiving similar treatment at the bare minimum.
Chris Brown violent outburst had to do with her asking that question when all he was there to do was discuss his career, and like I said she wouldn't had down that in interview with Charlie Sheen. I don't agree with the idea that people committed violent acts (once) and you at the end of day do not know their situation however I get upset people always undermine Rihanna's own violent behavior (I don't believe anyone should put their hands on anyone and that whole fight started because she put her hands on him first. If hit someone expect to get hit back as it makes no sense why anyone, man or woman should allow someone just hit them, I kind of went off topic but angers me that women get away with slapping men...violence is violence). My point Charlie is he is treated no different, no one comes out say slanderous (like Miranda Lambert, who forgot she broke up someone's marriage) about him or bar him from doing appearance. At the end of day, I am stating Chris Brown did will always be held against him and to me how do people expect change if they continue so.
White men generally avoid treatment while Black men become pariahs (exception of Chris Brown) so they don't get bare minimum, they get no treatment, like I said it turned into entertainment or mystified. Elvis and Priscilla is considered a great love story despite the fact what they did was illegal.
I have conflicted thing about R. Kelly because as an Aaliyah her family has continues said those two were not married and therefore to continue say that is insulting to her memory as there was no grounded proof. Yet people strangely don't bring up the actors that were messing around with Drew Barrymore while she was underage. And why this is a conflicted issue because states have different laws about age of consent and the fact the idea of being a teenager only been in fruition since the 50's.
Age does play a factor and I was not using as an excuse, I a just stating if guy does one bad thing in his youth, are you really going to bringing it up and demonizing him 20 years from now even if he became better person and educated himself on his atrocity.
I didn't believe OJ did the killing himself, I believe he knew who did it though, but that was not what he was on trial for.
I guess what I am getting at is you lumped them all together when there is great disparities as how the public deals with the individual.
I also want to point out imo Rihanna benefited alot from ordeal, people felt sorry for her despite fact she herself has displayed violent tendencies.
I really hope the writers handle the triangle with care, there's only so long it can drag on. What really gets me is how Elena constantly says she's all about Stefan yet she gets a guy who she knows fancies the pants off her to sort all her sh#t out. This is the main reason I could not handle reading the books, but in the TV series there is enough other stuff going on that distracts from it. I'm giving it a pass at the moment because Elena is in emotional overload, but she can't underestimate Stefan like that for ever and she can't use Damon's feelings for her like that for ever either. It will eventually make people think they're all idiots :-).
kinda not in the subject, but Michael, please, tell me, where is GG 6x02 recap? are you giving up on GG? bcz i can't wait to see it. your GG recaps are hilarious and it's the best thing about GG lately tbh <3
my bad, it's not even michael's post ;P sorry. i miss this recap so much i don't even care when I type my requests.
Just a question: when Elena grieved for her mom and dad, was she talking about her biological parents, or the parents that raised her?
Where's the recap?!
This sounded very much like a bunch of "Team Damon"s bashing stefan.
Can I just say, I doubt the triangle will ever end on this show.